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    The Physical World: Reality or Illusion?

    An Interview with Dr. Robin Kelly, author of The Human Antenna

    by Ernest Dempsey

    Mainstream science has long been skeptical, and recklessly so, of what have come to be called ‘paranormal phenomena’. The latter have repeatedly been criticized and discarded as unscientific and fiction, rather than fact. Lack of objectivity and a plausible, rational explanation have hindered the acceptance of the paranormal as believable experiences of mentally sane individuals. But now, we have a groundbreaking, new approach from Dr. Robin Kelly, a medical doctor and alternative healing expert, explaining the unusual phenomena with a fairly plausible hypothesis (if it can be called so at this point). In his latest book The Human Antenna (Elite Books, 2007), Dr. Kelly shares some of the most amazing research studies on the specialized properties of microtubules and DNA and their interaction with cosmic energy. Stories of near-death and out-of-body experiences, xenoglossy, x-ray vision, telephonic telepathy, and other mind-blowing phenomena make Dr. Kelly’s book a page turner. After reading it, you’ll seriously think, for the first time perhaps, of human beings as more than material bodies and human consciousness as not confined to brain function. I could hardly wait to chat with Dr. Kelly about his research and views on physical existence and cosmic energy, and their implications for healing illnesses. As expected, our conversation was exciting and Dr. Kelly’s insight simply fascinating.

    Ernest: Dr. Kelly, please tell our readers briefly about your academic background, professional experience, and major publications.

    Dr. Kelly: I am a formally-trained medical doctor, graduating from Middlesex Hospital, London University, in 1974. I spent six years in hospital medicine – three of these in London and three years in Auckland, New Zealand. During this time I worked in cancer wards, both with adults and children, as well as doing the usual internships, and emergency departments etc. I moved into family practice in Auckland, in 1981, as a proactive step, realizing my vocation was to treat ‘people rather than diseases.’ I sat the advanced qualifications for general practice, and progressed to become a Fellow of the Royal New Zealand College of General Practitioners. Along the way, I became president and education convener of the NZ Medical Acupuncture Society, and a founding trustee of the NZ MindBody trust. My first book Healing Ways: A Doctor’s Guide to Healing (Penguin Books, 2000) was released in New Zealand and in the UK. It explained the ways through which Eastern and Western philosophies of health could best be integrated. I focused on the meridian theory and the ‘zang fu’ – how our organ systems are interlinked, and display mind body and spiritual characteristics. The other main focus was how best to introduce the person’s uniqueness into their deep healing. One chapter focused on modern theories of healing, with particular reference to quantum theory, nonlocality, and entanglement. The Human Antenna extended, and updated, these concepts in 2007; this time with a focus on the Ayurvedic chakra system, and the growth of human consciousness. My aim in both books was to present a thoroughly grounded, straightforward, and practical view of these concepts, relating to my own experiences with people at times of challenge, and crisis in their lives.

    Ernest: The Human Antenna seems to be deeply inspired by your research on the interaction of cosmic energy with living tissues. Now what exactly is energy psychology and why do you place your work in the realm of ‘psychology’?

    Dr. Kelly: It became apparent to me as soon as I started to use acupuncture in my practice that our bodies are ‘open’ rather than ‘closed’ systems. My training prior to this time had focused on a theory that our bodies were largely ‘closed off’ from the world around us, and that the best way to help as a doctor was by introducing a chemical compound into the body, or by performing surgery. So firstly I was introduced to the Chinese concepts that primarily we were ‘energetic’ beings, with a free flow of natural energy in and out of the body.

    Acupuncture was one way to enhance this natural flow.The realization that we are also connected, and in fact contributors, to fields of information – non local ‘cosmic’ energy, came to me gradually. I began to notice synchronicities in my life, and in the lives of those seeking my help. At times there were major intuitive leaps occurring during an ‘energy balancing treatment.’ I was also acting as a medical director of a hospice at this time, and I became aware that those dying were particularly prone to these experiences. In essence, the veil between worlds seemed to be lifted at this time. I was also influenced by the work and writing of Rupert Sheldrake and Fritjof Capra, with their explanations of the non material sciences. However the cosmic connections really hit home with me when I read about the holographic, fractal nature of our universe. I had been using ear acupuncture, and reading the Chinese pulses, for several years prior to this. Here was a scientific theory that supported the idea that all the information of the body could be ‘held’ in one small part. So, for me, the scientific evidence came as a confirmation of my clinical experiences. Similarly, the scientific evidence that on the quantum level atoms could be ‘entangled’ came as a confirmation that on a human ‘macro’ levels, our minds, and hearts, could also be connected outside time and space. Over recent years, I have been attracted to the Energy Psychology movement, as it gives people tools to use this science themselves. At the root of these techniques lies a compassionate intent towards one’s self. Compassion is at the heart of non-local connections between individuals, whether it is telephone telepathy, near death or pre- death visions, or remote viewing. For energy psychology techniques to work, compassion needs to be openly expressed to one’s own self. They represent a practical way for people to demonstrate a true unconditional personal ownership of their healing.

    Ernest: Do you see humans, and other life forms, as essentially ‘energy beings’ rather than ‘material beings’?

    Dr. Kelly: I regard both as real –with our physical world being detectable by our senses. However, this physical dimension is only one representation of a deeper truth. The fact that all living beings are able to convert the quantum reality (and yet to be understood dimensions) into our time/space reality is the true miracle. We are becoming aware that beyond the grasp of our five senses there exists a universe existing as a field of universal information. It is speculated that our physical form is the end result of interference patterns of information – in nanotechnology we know that where two coherent beams of light cross, ‘entanglement’ can occur. Similarly the CERN Large Hadron Collider experiments this year will attempt to create the Higgs’ boson, commonly referred to as the God particle, out of subatomic particles (protons), colliding at great speed. In other words, we have reached a point in science where we are trying to create mass out of pure energy. In the Human Antenna, I speculate that this is exactly what is happening within each of us every second of our lives. So there is a growing scientific confirmation of the Buddhist understanding that our physical world is an ‘illusion.’ There are also several papers in the scientific literature appearing speculating that we live in a ‘virtual reality’ universe. However, it seems those who have this deeper understanding, also view the physical world as the true miracle. Knowing all this only makes us want to protect our earth and its inhabitants even more. It gives us a glimpse of the sacredness at the core of our being.

    Ernest: So what exactly is scalar energy and what is its role in human life?

    Dr. Kelly: Scalar energy, zero point energy, wormholes, even star gates, are all our limited way of trying to explain our connection to realms that exist ‘outside’ our concepts of space and time. It seems that when we reach the very limits of our earthly dimensions – i.e. as we approach the speed of light, or a temperature of absolute zero – the hard rules of known physics seem to be ‘bent.’ Similarly at times of intense emotional connection i.e. love and loss, and as part of the dying process, we as humans can glimpse at other dimensions. In The Human Antenna, I draw attention to the mobius coil – a manifestation of the infinity symbol. If an electrical current is passed through wires assembled in this form, all the positive and negative currents balance each other out. Effectively we now have a vacuum produced outside the confines of electricity or electromagnetic fields – with all forces of ‘yin’ and ‘yang’ balanced. The analogy here is that of ‘the eye’ within the vortex of a storm. The double helix of the DNA and the helical structures we find within our connective tissue can be regarded as many of these mobius coils, infinity signs, all joined together. I speculate that when we, as humans, are in optimum physical and electrical balance, we are in the best condition to ‘download’ these realms. This has huge significance for our understanding of both physical healing and the creative process. Of course the symbol of the Caduceus, the twin serpents entwined around the rod of Hermes, is the holographic representation of all this on the human scale.

    Ernest: How can the interaction between DNA and scalar energy be used in healing patients of some, or any, kinds of diseases?

    Dr. Kelly: There is speculation that our DNA downloads ‘the field’, and then acts as a four- dimensional projector of ‘biophotonic’ laser light beams of energy. This immensely complex laser light show forms the holographic matrix or map upon which physical structure forms. Somehow, this interacts with the microtubules within our connective tissue web, which researchers, such as Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose, also hypothesize are converters of these quantum realms. This of course sounds like science fiction, but there are reports of this theory being supported by ground breaking experiments in Russia. One Moscow based biophysicist Peter Gariaev, has recorded the information from the DNA of the pancreases of healthy rats, and has ‘projected it’ into the bodies of diabetic rats whose pancreases have been poisoned. Healthy pancreases have formed in the diabetic rats on this new matrix, reversing their diabetes and need for insulin. Of course, this sort of experiment needs to be replicated several times to gain scientific credibility. But there are precious few researchers in the West with a suitable grounding in biophysics. Also, most research projects are funded by the biochemical industry. Although all this sounds very exciting, my own interest lies more on how this new understanding of our bodies can be used, everyday, for healing by the person in the street. For instance: Can we use simple and cheap light and sound devices to heal? How do positive and negative emotions, and intent, affect this energetic matrix? Can negative energy in childhood cause the body to malfunction at this vital fundamental level, leading to diseases later in life? If so, how can we influence this process in a positive way? Can we help in our communities by reducing the background level of fear and tension? This grass-roots approach takes the responsibility away from the research centers, and places it, and the power, back into our own hands. It is also important that to teach this to our children at school.

    Ernest: The Human Antenna discusses dreams, out of body experiences, and near death experiences (NDEs) as scientifically explainable, right?

    Dr. Kelly: In the confusing world of consciousness studies, there can be said to be two ‘camps.’ The first believes that our consciousness is simply a by-product of our brains – an epiphenomenon. The second is that we act as filters of consciousness – which is the information of our universe and primary, or fundamental, to everything else. Of course, The Human Antenna model embraces the latter. Those who favor the first explanation will point at an area of the brain that shows up on a scan when someone is having an out of body experience or an NDE and say: ‘Look that proves it; its all a misperception; it’s all in the head!’ Those of us in the second camp, say: ‘No, those are only the recording lights to show us we are downloading something real!’ (Maybe, we will say, the people we meet in NDEs are as real as the Larry King we see on our TV screen every night!) Up until now, the scientific community has rather dogmatically favored the first explanation - that consciousness is an epiphenomenon. However, it appears, without any valid scientific proof. My work challenges this view. I happen to feel though there may be a middle ground. Our perceptions certainly influence our world and universe. This is clear from Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity onwards, up until and including the modern theories of observer physics. For instance what we see through our eyes is likely a combined effect of light reaching our eyes, and the perceptions already formed within our brains. So our conditioning is a major player in our reality. As we grow consciously and spiritually, we tend to move away from dogma and see things, literally, in a new light. No amount of intellectual persuading will convince a hardened skeptic that the foundations of life are based on energy, love and consciousness. Our intellects are too bound to our ego.

    Ernest: So the upshot of these so-called ‘paranormal’ phenomena is that our consciousness is not confined to our material being and can live beyond the body. What is your view on the origin of consciousness? Can it originate without a physical body?

    Dr. Kelly: Yes, when we die, for instance, the recording apparatus dies, but the consciousness show goes on. I don’t think any of us, certainly not myself, has any idea about the true origin of consciousness. In the fractal universe though, the more we look the more we find. Physicists David Deutsch and Michio Kaku are now convinced that there are multiple universes, and that the connections between these lie both in the macrocosm and the microcosm. In The Human Antenna appendix, I explore John Wheeler’s theory of ‘quantum foam’ of space containing an infinite number of wormholes to other universes. I speculate that this is the space upon, and from, which we are continuously manifesting. So clearly our Newtonian concept of time and space, even our talk of a ‘past, present and future,’ or ‘big or small,’ doesn’t make much sense when talking about these other dimensions. All these physicists agree that each universe will have its own scientific rules. However, rather than getting lost in all this speculation, I think it is wonderful that we have reached the point we can talk this way. In many ways, our perception of the universe is growing alongside our conscious growth. So maybe, just maybe, the two are closely linked. We are the co-creators of all this! Can consciousness exist without our bodies?

    Probably yes, but it is with and through our bodies that we are beginning to make sense of it all.

    Ernest: You place a high value on ancient Chinese and Hindu traditions of healing that are both based on energy/human interaction. How do you compare these systems with modern allopathic approach to healing?

    Dr. Kelly: My work and writing are attempts to bring these apparently differing views of health and healing together. The allopathic approach to medicine has largely developed as a result of our rushed Western life style. Recently, I tried to convince a woman living in New Zealand, but born in China, to have acupuncture rather than a cortisone injection for her inflamed tendon. She said she would have the steroid, as she needed it numbed down quickly as ‘time meant money.’ So our ‘symptom-quelling’ approach has its basis as much with the way most people run their lives as with the mass conditioning of the public by the pharmaceutical industry. We all need symptom control to deal with our lives – it is perfectly ok to take an aspirin for a headache, as long as we take into account its cause. Similarly, for those in severe pain, or who are terminally ill, the compassionate symptom controlling approach is essential. However, the holistic approach of Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine acknowledges there are underlying deeper processes at play. In these traditional cultures, many Western diseases are seen simply as symptoms of a more fundamental energetic imbalance. So by addressing the purely ‘physical’ or ‘chemical’ in our Western approach, one can be accused of neglecting the root energetic causes of ill health. Certainly the emerging science of biophysics supports this view. However, we still need to adapt these systems of energy medicine into a more effective model in the West. One big hurdle is how in the West we have defined ‘the placebo.’ In many ways, the intent of the healer, and of faith and beliefs of the person to be healed, is paramount to the Ayurvedic and Chinese system of health. So we need to embrace and understand the role of all these concepts, and not alienate or belittle them as we have tended to do. Just because the concept of ‘placebo’ is a useful yardstick by which we measure the performance of a pharmaceutical, doesn’t make it an appropriate measure for those interactive healing arts which embrace compassion, interaction and faith. In these models, all these elements are seen as vital to achieving satisfactory outcomes.

    Ernest: In healing through cosmic energy, the psychological states, of the healer and that of the patient, are important. How does this help in healing?

    Dr. Kelly: The healer and the patient together are conduits for this cosmic energy. They therefore should be in a harmonious state both within themselves and together. This is the state of coherence which is so important to healing. The healer should teach the patient how she or he can do this her/himself. The HeartMath Institute has been one of the leading researchers in this field, and we now have-hand held biofeedback devices that measure the desired state of coherence in the heart. The heart is the strongest electrical organ in the body, and hence when in balance the most potent ‘transceiver’ of this cosmic, scalar energy. The techniques used to achieve this coherence combine gentle abdominal breathing with heart awareness exercises. Developing a sense of well being, joy and compassion in the region of the heart, while gently breathing in, forms the basis of profound energy psychology techniques. In joint sessions, it is important for both healer and healee to achieve this level of heart balance, preferably together in harmony.

    Ernest: There was a stage in your professional career when you decided against practicing hypnotism. Would you like to tell why?

    Dr. Kelly: My goal all along is to help people take true ownership of their healing. When I learnt hypnotherapy, I was concerned I may put myself in an ‘overly controlling’ role. At that time in the 80s, I was also learning to meditate, and practice Qi Gong, and so I felt even teaching ‘selfhypnosis’ didn’t quite fit for where I was at. However, I acknowledge many find these techniques very useful, and I encourage them where appropriate. It is very important that people use their due diligence, and their intuition, when seeking out a hypnotherapist, especially for past life work. I see the overriding role of regression work as a healing aid for this life.

    Ernest: Okay, do you mind my asking whether you believe in God? If so, what is your concept of God?

    Dr. Kelly: My own concept of God is an all pervading, benign, loving connection between all beings. My God is more of an entity than an identity. It is pure, unconditional love. It is important I feel, for Energy Psychology techniques to be most effective, for us to recognize that this God also resides within; that we are all divine beings. However, in all healing encounters, we should meet people where they wish to be met. It is not my role to impose my understandings of God onto anyone seeking my help. It is their own God that we call on. I invite all patients to talk about love and, if they want, about God. It is, on reflection, rather strange that formal medicine has tended to ignore something so important and basic to the healing process.

    Ernest: Finally, you make mention of feminine values in religions that are important in effective healing with universal energy. What are those values and how they work in healing?

    Dr. Kelly: I think one of the most pivotal omissions in both religious and medical teaching for centuries is an open recognition of the sacredness of women. Western religious teaching has tended to distance women from their spirituality – witness how women have for centuries felt more comfortable giving than receiving. This has had a huge impact on women’s health – in particular, their immune systems. The auto immune conditions of rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis and lupus all affect women in greater numbers than men. Guilt, poor self – esteem, and poor financial rewards, have all taken their toll. These issues are also prominent in women with breast cancer – a heart-chakra condition involving the organ that nurtures others. The role of emotions in health has been well know to women, but has until recently ignored by our health systems. The Energy Psychology techniques, which are really an open expression of self love, are a godsend for women who inherently seem to understand these issues more than men. However, I am confident that we are witness to a time of great change, and growth in our consciousness. This awareness is being fed to me everyday through the people – women, men and children -seeking my help. They continue to be my most profound and patient teachers.

    Ernest: Thank you very much Dr. Kelly for your time and sharing your wisdom!




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